Corrections to es translation

[arien]

After [7634] the es locale still has a number of (translation and spelling) errors and inconsistencies, a.o.:

• Latvian is translated as Latvio (should be Letón)
• Portugués is missing the second "u" (it's written as Portugés now)
• password is still translated as clave instead of contraseña in some places
• a msgid was accidentally changed instead of its msgstr (Add -> Añadir instead of Agregar -> Añadir)
• you/your should be translated as usted/su throughout
• billon and trillion in English are mil millones and billón in Spanish

I've left a couple of things as they are now:

• languages start with a capital letter in English, but are all lower-case in Spanish (e.g. portugués for Portugese)
• the same goes for names of months and days of the week
• IMHO Brazilian Portugese should be translated as portugués de Brasil and Argentinian Spanish as español de Argentina
• previsualizar make my eyes hurt (is that even a verb?)

Is there a reason for having these translations like this?

I'll attach a patch for the other issues.

[arien]

corrections for es locale

[anonymous]

Thanks arien, commiting asap :)

[Marc Fargas]

(In [7661]) Refs #7461, Typos in 'es' locale. Thanks arien

[Marc Fargas]

Replying to arien:

• billon and trillion in English are mil millones and billón in Spanish

Thats one thing that's been flying around for some time, but your translations are far more practical than the ones currently there.

• languages start with a capital letter in English, but are all lower-case in Spanish (e.g. portugués for Portugese)
• the same goes for names of months and days of the week

Will go throught those later.

• IMHO Brazilian Portugese should be translated as portugués de Brasil and Argentinian Spanish as español de Argentina

M... yes ;)

• previsualizar make my eyes hurt (is that even a verb?)

Yes, that's a verb, and the right one for the case as far as I know :)

Moving back to Accepted as the things that were "ready for checkin" are already in ;))

[Marc Fargas]

Marc G. CC'ing you to make sure you see this ticket ;)
(Marc G. is also 'es' maintainer)

[arien]

Thanks for getting this is in. :-)

I'm attaching a patch for one of the open issues: language names in all lower-case. (I don't think this is a controversial change, and it's the right thing to do.)

[arien]

language names in all lower-case

[Marc Fargas]

Replying to arien:

I'm attaching a patch for one of the open issues: language names in all lower-case. (I don't think this is a controversial change, and it's the right thing to do.)

Sure it's the right thing to do, dunno why they're uppercase, "es"'s been around since 2005 so who knows. Thanks for the patch I'll commit it in a while.

[Marc Fargas]

Err.. Maybe it is a bit controversial. One of the most common uses of the language names is to create dropdowns or links to select languages, cases in which language names need to be uppercase.

So it's not that easy. And it's one of those things that happen when English is the primary language... I'll bring this to django-i18n to see how many languages are affected and possible solutions.

[arien]

Replying to telenieko:

Err.. Maybe it is a bit controversial. One of the most common uses of the language names is to create dropdowns or links to select languages, cases in which language names need to be uppercase.

Well, yeah... I thought of that as well, but forgot about it just now. There's a similar issue for names of months and days of the week. :-/

So it's not that easy. And it's one of those things that happen when English is the primary language... I'll bring this to django-i18n to see how many languages are affected and possible solutions.

Sure, let's see what happens on django-i18n.

That leaves previsualizar as the translation for preview. The RAE hasn't heard of it, but I can't think of a nice and concise translation.

[Marc Garcia]

Excelent patch Arien, I didn't think that I forget too many things in my last patch.

I'm just not sure in a couple of changes you made...

• On line 1427 (and some others) you're translating "delete" for "eliminar". May be your translation sounds better, but I think that "delete" is "borrar" and "remove" is "eliminar".
• On line 1531, the tampered think is not the comment form itself, but something related with it, so I think the old translation is better.
• On line 1558 I agree using "usted" as person, but I think that there is a pronoun missing "No puede votarse a sÃí mismo" instead of "No puede votar a sÃí mismo"

Then I think that we should treat the lowercase languages, and the milion/trilion stuff in separate tickets, so they are controversial. Specially because the milion thing has been debated other times, and it's not a spanish problem, so probably for most european countries (at least). The lowercase languages, I think that is controversial, specially because the original translations of the languages aren't used (are marked as a dummy translation), and when can't know which will be the use of those translations.

[arien]

Replying to garcia_marc:

Excelent patch Arien, I didn't think that I forget too many things in my last patch.

Thanks. :-)

I'm just not sure in a couple of changes you made...

• On line 1427 (and some others) you're translating "delete" for "eliminar". May be your translation sounds better, but I think that "delete" is "borrar" and "remove" is "eliminar".

I think the translation is a correct one. borrar is making something disappear, while delete indicates removal, as does eliminar. Thoughts?

• On line 1531, the tampered think is not the comment form itself, but something related with it, so I think the old translation is better.

The English phrase means that the comment form has been (fraudulently) changed. (Maybe the with in tampered with is causing confusion?)

• On line 1558 I agree using "usted" as person, but I think that there is a pronoun missing "No puede votarse a sí mismo" instead of "No puede votar a sí mismo"

But votarse would mean votar is reflexive, which it isn't. Another translation could be No se puede votar a sí mismo. What do you think?

Then I think that we should treat the lowercase languages, and the milion/trilion stuff in separate tickets, so they are controversial. Specially because the milion thing has been debated other times, and it's not a spanish problem, so probably for most european countries (at least).

The billion means 1e9 in English, but in Spanish billón means 1e12. (Maybe there are Spanish-speaking countries were this isn't the case (are there any?), but then that can be dealt with in some other 'es_XX' locale.) What am I missing?

The lowercase languages, I think that is controversial, specially because the original translations of the languages aren't used (are marked as a dummy translation), and when can't know which will be the use of those translations.

There's ​a thread on Django-i18n on this issue now.

[anonymous]

Replying to telenieko:

Err.. Maybe it is a bit controversial. One of the most common uses of the language names is to create dropdowns or links to select languages, cases in which language names need to be uppercase.

Actually, when that's the case, I'd say it's up to the code that uses the translation(s) to make sure the first letter is a capital, IMO. The translations are translations of arbitrary text, and shouldn't mind the context, because the context can differ due to how gettext works.

So, in short, go for what's right for the language, and then the dropdown code'll have to run str.title on all translated strings.

Just my two cents.

[Ludvig Ericson]

I wrote comment:13. Forgot to log in. :-(

[Marc Fargas]

(In [7696]) Refs #7461, lowercased language names in Spanish translation. Thanks Arien.

[Marc Fargas]

Replying to arien:

• languages start with a capital letter in English, but are all lower-case in Spanish (e.g. portugués for Portugese)
• the same goes for names of months and days of the week

The only thing left is month names, I'm really scared for this one as it could nicelly screw all dates, people like to write month names uppercased in dates. So I'm not sure about touching them. The only case you'd write a month name outside a date is in the middle of text and it's unlikely to be alone inside a trans block.

What do you think?

[arien]

Replying to telenieko:

The only thing left is month names, I'm really scared for this one as it could nicelly screw all dates, people like to write month names uppercased in dates. So I'm not sure about touching them.

Well, I'd lower-case them, because that's how they're supposed to be written in Spanish. You shouldn't have to fight the translation to make it produce proper Spanish. :-)

It works the same in your shell, for example:

$ LANG=es_ES.UTF-8; date '+%a %A %b %B'
mié miércoles jun junio
$ LANG=en_US.UTF-8; date '+%a %A %b %B'
Wed Wednesday Jun June

If people want to write those with an initial upper-case, they can. But it should be harder to do things wrong than it is to do things right.

The only case you'd write a month name outside a date is in the middle of text and it's unlikely to be alone inside a trans block.

I don't follow. You'd pass the month to a blocktrans or something along those lines, right?

[arien]

names of weekdays and months in lower-case

[Marc Fargas]

(In [7700]) Closes #7461, Month/Week names lowercased. Thanks Arien.

[Marc Fargas]

I think it's ok now.